Finding Ikigai: Farhaz Farouk's Journey of Self-Discovery and Coaching

He spent two decades in banking and oil and gas before walking away at 47 to figure out what he actually wanted.

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Farhaz Farouk grew up between Saudi Arabia, Sri Lanka, and Bahrain before spending 15 years in banking and later becoming CFO of an oil and gas holding company. At 47, he quit to finish an MBA — and never went back to corporate life. He returned to Sri Lanka at 48 and rebuilt himself as a coach, trainer, and consultant, now serving as Country Director of Morphosis Coaching.

This conversation covers:
- Why "one-size-fits-all" coaching and training fails clients
- The difference between managing and leading, and the ego mistake behind most bad leadership
- How business cards without job titles changed the way Farhaz saw hierarchy
- Why he intentionally keeps his coaching fees flexible to make the profession more accessible
- The Ikigai framework, and how to apply it to your own life

Farhaz's story isn't about a dramatic reinvention — it's about slowly giving himself permission to build a life around what he's actually good at and drawn to, instead of what looked responsible on paper.

CREDITS:
Hosted by Sheran Ranasinghe
Produced by Odyssey House Media
Guest: Farhaz Farouk, Morphosis Coaching

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Creative Buddhist Podcast. My name is Sherman. And today I have a very interesting and unique story of a gentleman who has been away from Sri Lanka, brought back and left again, and then finally brought back over here to at a much later age to find curiosity and follow the curiosity and and and help Sri Lankan organizations and worldwide to find their icky guy and see how they can help organizations. So, Barhas, thank you so much for being on the podcast. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Let's dive immediately into it. What do you do and how do you explain to somebody who has no idea about your field?

SPEAKER_01 0:43

First off, thanks for having me. The easiest, simplest way I could perhaps introduce myself to somebody who doesn't know me is hey, I let you discover yourself. In more ways than one. And that would come from where I have been, where I currently am, and where I hope to get to. And that's how I would hopefully help you also go through a similar journey of self-discovery. So that's the long and short of it, really, Sharon.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Still don't know what you do.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

I'll get to it. So from my background, I trained as an accountant. Okay. I got qualified as a chartered accountant very long back. And then I did the other thing as well, SEMA. Those days it was this thing to be a double accountant. So I got both those qualifications under the belt. Went into banking. Typical Sri Lankan professional career building story. And from Sri Lanka, I got an opportunity to go abroad once again into banking. So I dived deep into it. And I've been in banking for perhaps 15 years of my career. And then I got headhuntered into the oil and gas holding company where I used to live as CFO. And that opened a totally different industry while still using my existing skills. While going through that journey of serving others, I wanted to also dive back into a little bit of academic passion that I had. I wanted to always get a master's. So I started that off. And this was really a starting point of so many different things. In order to complete the master's, I actually had to quit working because it got so strenuous. I took time off. I quit work and I did it. And then I started thinking to myself, what do I do with this? Do I get back into work or do I do something else? And that's when everything turned around. We just chucked everything we had abroad, came back to Sri Lanka, me and my wife. And currently what I do is I do people development. So I retrained myself as a coach. I retrained myself as a corporate trainer. But I do have a lot of experience and a lot of exposure to various industries. So I also do consulting. So the long and short, I say I'm a coach trainer consultant. Wow. But who's got all of that exposure and experience behind him? Working in multiple industries, multiple countries, and also I'm multilingual. So bring all of that together. So I do coaching, training, consulting. How old were you when you decided to come back? Right. Now we, me and my wife and I say we had a plan when we hit the Big Five Zero, we are going to come back to Sri Lanka. And we had financial goals, all of that, all laid up. Typical story. We achieved those financial goals a bit earlier than the Big Five Zero. And I quit job, quit working at 47. I took one year to complete my MBA. It was a good project. It was a two-year program, but because of work, I was struggling with it. And then so I took time off, finished the MBA. So got back to Sri Lanka when I was 48, as soon as I finished the MBA. When we got back, COVID was around, so things weren't really the best conducive situation to start something new. But in a way, it also helped with soul searching to see what we really want to do. Do I get back to work? Do I get back to profession? Do I get back? And I thought, no, you know what? I'm just going to do what I like. And what I like is this. I like talking to people. I like experience sharing, knowledge sharing, skill sharing with people. And then one thing led to another. And I said, okay, I'm retraining myself as a coach, as a trainer. And that's how it happened. So 48 was the time I got back. Was it how was that experience? Let me. It was tough. It was challenging. There's also another side to me which I should perhaps say I grew up outside Sri Lanka as well. Okay. From age of three until 15, I was in Saudi Arabia. And then another 20 years of my professional career life, I was in outside Sri Lanka. So two-thirds of my life I had actually spent outside. So I was like a foreigner coming into a country and trying to figure their way around. And it's strange. I do have a Sri Lankan passport. I'm out and out, Sri Lankan for anything and everything that matters. But I was, for all intents and purposes, quite new to the place. And I had a time trying to figure my way out, getting back to routine, trying to find things to do, trying to find my little networks and friends and colleagues and whatever to sort things out. It was a bit of an effort. COVID didn't help, but as I said, it did have its plus side because it did give a little bit of time for me to sit back and think through how we're going to get through it. So, foreigner coming into a country, that was the experience. Nature playing its part and giving me time to think through it. Fast forward a few years, it's been about what, five years since COVID hit us. I think I am doing reasonably okay under the circumstances. Very well settled. Got my friends' network back going, new networks back going. Got a set of clients working, good work in relationships. Plus, I do a lot of things that I had always wanted to do, but I never got the time. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think I'm probably living the best time of my life now, currently.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

That's amazing to hear. That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

So farhaz, let's go to your childhood a little bit. What was childhood like and how yeah, what was little for like?

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Yeah. Third year we moved to Saudi Arabia. My dad was working there. And at that time, it was Saudi Arabia at its infancy, I would say. You know, things weren't really developed. To start with, schooling was the first challenge. We didn't have a Sri Lankan school. So my parents thought, you know what, let's get these fellows into a culture as close to Sri Lankan as possible. So they put us into an Indian school. At that time, I think there were just four Sri Lankan students in this entire Indian school. Myself, my sister, and two other kids. Later on, a few other Sri Lankans did join. But it turned out to be actually a blessing in disguise, Sharan. I it was an English media school, of course, but because it was an Indian school, Hindi was compulsory. Reading, writing, speaking. And because it was Saudi Arabia, they had a rule, Arabic is also compulsory.

unknown 7:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

And so, in a weird way, from a very young age, I had, of course, our English as the main language, and I was speaking Tamil at home. But I was forced to learn an Eastern Asian language, which is Hindi, and a West Asian language, which was Arabic, which come from two different routes. Right. In a way, I would say I think that was a good way to get my mind open to two different cultures, two different ways of living, two different because learning a language is just not learning to talk to each other. It's got a lot of history, a lot of culture behind it. And exposure to one culture, exposure to. And from a young age, this just came into place. And now what has happened to me is I can gel well with almost anybody I meet from day one. And that's probably because internally I'm wired to be accepting of different cultures, different types of people, different thinking, and so on. So that advantage came into play. Again, getting back to childhood. So Indian school, most of my childhood friends are Indians, which in and of itself, you may think, is that good? No, it is a really good thing because all those kids did really well. So I got friends now from, of course, lots of them are in India, but all the way from Japan to the US, I got friends all over the globe in different fields, different industries, different professions, settled down. So wherever I go, I know I can find somebody who I know. That's huge. And that's that was it. Growing up in Saudi Arabia itself was a different experience. I mean, of course, different to Sri Lanka. A bit rigid. We didn't really have too many entertainment options, but whatever we had, we made maximum use of. And it was football. Football. Yeah. Wherever we it is a bit like cricket being played in Sri Lanka. In Saudi Arabia, wherever there's a bit of a space, everybody plays football. And I got heavily into football as a sport. In school, I turned out to be one of the best goalkeepers the school produced, and so on. That's another story. Coming back to Sri Lanka, football is popular, but not as popular as cricket or rugby. And I never really understood cricket. So I it was like a natural flow into the sport of rugby. And there were things coming back to Sri Lanka, I actually converted from a football player to a rugby player. And that's a passion I'm continuing till date. Wow. Very cool. So that's a bit of growing up in Saudi Arabia, of course. The environment there was very rigid. So parents were also a bit rigid. And that probably played a part in me not exploring myself as much as I would have liked when I was a kid. Coming back to Sri Lanka, that opened up a bit, but I was still having to work within a certain framework. My dad was still working in the Middle East, my mom was over here, so she was playing the role of both parents, so she put extra rules. But eventually things started loosening up, of course, when I started studying for chartered accounting and so on. Moving to Bahrain helped a lot. Because I had to be, it was just me and my wife, there's nobody else. And so we had to really open up, we had to really start thinking out of the box and so on. And that really helped my thinking process, which probably led to me taking that very critical decision of quitting work at a particular time in life where people would say, Hey, that's you know, that's a very critical time in your life. But took that decision, moved out, and eventually ended up where I am. So I guess moving to Bahrain really helped unleash all of those things that I had always wanted to do. And was there any particular reason that happened in Bahrain? Or not really. I wouldn't pinpoint any particular reason, but then I really had an opportunity to first off try myself out as a professional out of my comfort zone, which was Sri Lanka at that time. Because childhood was in Saudi Arabia, but there was this little time where I had to come back to do A levels and chartered accounting and all of that here. So my first proper professional experience after those seven, ten years in Sri Lanka was in Bahrain. And here I was having a British general manager, uh Bangladeshi chief operating officer as my two superiors, immediate superiors, and having to work with the gentleman from New Zealand as the chief credit officer, somebody from Praistan as a chief risk officer, the deputy general manager Bahraini gentleman. And so having this cosmopolitan mix, I really was pushed into the deep end to try and see myself, how I would fit in. And that probably forced me to get out of these little limitations that I had placed for myself. And moving on from that job, I got headhunted to the next place, which was a startup investment bank. And at that time, I was probably the 30th employee or whatever. And that organization operated on an entrepreneurial basis. So every single one of us was technically an owner of the organization and in reality as well, because we all of us had shares in it. It was part of our compensation package. So it forced us to think as entrepreneurs. That opened up a like a second set of ways in which I was beginning to explore myself. Now I was not just a person working there, but I was also working in an organization in which I was a part owner. And so I had a direct stake in how successful that organization would be, that would define my future as well. So that kind of thinking, that organization literally made not just me. I remember this transformation in almost all my colleagues. Yeah, all of us started thinking of as business people, as entrepreneurs, as real owners of the company. Even the driver, sometimes, this guy, he would never go home. And when I asked him, hey, say it, what are you doing here? No, no, no. Artif told me to wait. I got something to deliver to so and so. If I don't do it, nobody else will do it. That kind of a thinking came up. And that was probably the next stage of where you know I was literally forced into exploring myself, seeing where I could do, which way I could head, and so on. Next stage of development was where I was headhunted, but not into the banking sector, into the oil and gas sector. And once again, my friends were asking, hey, this is new, are you made for this? Can you work there? Do you know the industry? I would never know if I don't jump in. Right. And by this time, I had already gone through so many opportunities for me to think about myself outside the box or the limitations that were faced. And getting into this was just a natural thing to do. And I told myself, listen, give yourself three months, see if you can understand the industry. If you can, you're sorted. If not, quietly go scratching your head back to your former boss and see if he can get your job back. That's what that's how I was thinking. And I took the leap. It did take a little bit more than three months for me to get my hands into the oil and gas industry because believe me, it's really deep. It's just not simply a question of finding oil, pulling it out, refining it, and us pumping it into the cars. There's a lot more to it. So it took me a bit of a time. But if you ask me today, that was the next stage of discovery, self-discovery, and so on. I even found out like you know, the creams that we put on our face, the toothpaste that we all come from past dead animals, you know. The plastics, uh literally lots of things around this office probably used to be a living thing billions of years back. But that again was the next stage where I started exploring myself and so on. And a few other things as well happened. But I'll probably stop here because you probably may need to.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Yeah, so at this point I usually ask the guest. The podcast is called the Creative Odyssey. Simply, what does creativity mean to you and how do you see that?

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Right. Now, the when I think of creativity, I would always think of us thinking of something new or something that's already existing but can be done in a better way. Now, what I didn't currently what I do is none of that is new. But what I thought is I'm going to do these three activities, but in a slightly different way to what is being done outside in the market. So let's take training, for instance. I don't have fixed training programs. Like if you ask me, I don't have like a weekly thing, people coming in, I don't do, I don't do trainings like that. I also don't have fixed curricula for different clients. I don't do that as well. Every client is unique, every client's requirement is unique. I would not design a program until I get that clarified on the client. And once it is designed, I'm not going to go and implement it without getting it okay by the client. Because I need to make sure whatever the client is paying for, they get value out of it. Yes. And the only way a client can get value out of the training I provide is if it solves their problem. Correct. So that's the type of creativity. So if you ask me, I don't have standard formula, standard syllabi for anything. Every program is made from scratch. Of course, there are foundational material that I use, but every program is created, is tailor-made to the client's request. So that's as far as training is concerned. Now let's get to the profession of coaching. Coaching is different to training. Training is where I give material for them to think about, for them to do, I give instructions, do this, do that, jump up, sit down. This is what a trainer does. A coach never says, do this, do that. A coach would ask the client, what do you think you should be doing? Where do you think you would have been had you done this? It's more of an exploratory process. So needless to say, a coaching can only be a true proper coach can only be successful if he or she treats every client as a unique individual who's coming with a unique set of problems. So once again, you've got to go with a clean slate. But coaching is not straightforward, and you really need to sit and think about every word a client says. I'll give you one very quick example. One of my recent clients. My simple question was, what do you like to do? Because I found that this person was lacking interest in life generally. So I just threw this question. What do you like to do? Very open-ended question. And in cricketing terms, it's what we call a batting wicket. The person's answer was I just wake up in the morning, I do this, I do that, I do this, and that's about it. And then I go to sleep. Which to me sounded like there's nothing I do that I like to do. Correct. That made me ask a follow-up question based on what the response was. Why do you go to the gym? Because one of the things the person said was going to the gym. Why do you go to the gym? Because I like to go to the gym. I said, that's it. Answer number one, Chief.

unknown 18:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

So let's write that down. And then I started probing every single thing that was said. And by the time we finished about six minutes of discussion, there were eight things on his list, on the person's list. Then I said, let's leave about 20 empty spaces because I know we are going to get more while as we talk through. And trust me, by the time we finish that hour of coaching, there were 24 things written down. Wow. And then I just asked the question. So tell me, what are the things that you like to do? And I got a whole list of things I like to do. Right. So now that's creativity. You just need to keep things open, you keep things as fluid as possible so that you get the client to realize the maximum out of them. So that's probably how I would say is creativity when it comes to coaching. Now, consulting is where organizations have specific problems or specific requirements, and they ask someone to come in and try to help them out. Now, once again, if I was doing a commercial consulting operation for want of a better term, I would probably have a one-size-fits-all when it comes to, say, a banking problem or when it comes to an operational problem. I again don't have one size fits all. There are also some consulting assignments which are a bit tricky. The organization wants a consultant just to come and tell the staff what the management wants to do once it gets, but they themselves don't want to do it. Whatever the requirement is, it really needs a lot of thinking to make sure you agree to or you provide the client the service that they require. Now, of course, when it comes to consulting assignments, as with the other two, one very important thing is to make sure you know we are quite ethical with what we do. We don't, you know, I don't really do things which I feel will harm people, which will be detrimental to people and all that. I don't do though, do that kind of stuff because I'm not really going after assignments and money right now at this stage in life. So within those limits, of course, I make sure I understand what the client's limit requirements are and satisfy those. So coming back to your question, how does creativity play a part in what I do? Am I creating something new? No. Coaching is not new, training is not new, consulting is not new. But where is the creativity? I treat every client as a unique individual, as a person with unique problems that need to be sorted out. So that's how I bring creativity into the coaching process. Every training requirement, understand what the requirements of the organization are, what problem do they intend to solve, and cater to those without taking a one-size-fits all. So that's how I believe creativity comes in over there. And when it comes to consulting assignments, properly understand what the client organization's requirements are and build a program or build a consulting assignment based around that. And that's probably how I would say creativity comes there, Sharon.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

So when you came to Sri Lanka, you're changing careers. Yep. Right? And first of all, how did you get the idea for course? Coaching, leading, all of those things, training. And what was that mindset process like for you to get to the point of like, okay, now I'm this and I need to now, especially you're working you're working for yourself, I'm understanding, right? And and having to like find clients and these kinds of things, and you have to believe something about you before you even do that. So talk to me through that whole process.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

It was a bit of intent and a bit of chance. And I guess there's nothing wrong in having a combination of both of them. Because I have always thought of myself as a people person. I like to talk to people, I like to pass knowledge and so on. And I have done this in very informal settings right throughout my career, at office, outside office, and all that. So that was always there in me. Plus, during the days that I myself was a student, I used to also teach. So, like say I'm in part two, I used to teach part one because the institute saw, you know, this fellow's a talkative chap, you know, maybe we could ask him to teach, and then they find you're a good teacher too. And when I get to part three, they also give me some part two subjects. I've been always teaching. So it was always in me that, you know, at some stage I need to get into a thing to do something where I would be in a knowledge sharing kind of a setup. So that intent was always there. But work kept me busy in the professional, in the corporate sector, work kept me busy. Eventually, what happened was after coming to Sri Lanka, things weren't really, you know, everything was in a standstill and so on. But by a stroke of luck, and that's where chance played a part. One of my friends who was himself setting doing a startup, a small training setup, the guy said, Listen, I know you have a lot of experience. You may not have direct experience in the training sector, but can you help me set up the operations of my organization? So it was like a like a consulting thing, you may call it, or maybe like a short-term freelance, whatever, whatever you may call it. But I had to help the guy set up the operations. And I said, Yeah, of course. I know what I mean. You're a friend, and I will always love to help a friend. I got a I got in. So I started helping the guy out set up the operations of his training setup. And this was a typical startup story from a little office, two tables, four people seated across each other, and so we were putting things in place and operating procedures, policies and procedures, hiring people, so on, organizing training programs, all of that got set up. And while doing that, the guy suggested, you know, you are also reasonably good in training. Why don't you also become a trainer here? I didn't go there to do training, but that kind of restarted the training thing in me. And one thing led to another. The person was asking me to look at one set of courses, but that led me to another set of courses. That's where chance played a part. So I'm consulting for him. He says, look at courses of organization A, which was an American organization. That led me to Organization B, which was an organization based in the Philippines. Attending a meeting there, I meet an individual who is based out of Kuala Lampou, but from a Belgian-French background, who does training for coaches. Struck a conversation with the person, and one thing led to another, and he said, You seem to have qualities that will make a good coach. Would you like to consider? I ended up becoming his student and getting training to be an International Coaching Federation certified coach. And while doing that, I threw a small business idea at him and said, Sir, can I borrow your logo, your brand, your intellectual property and set it up in Sri Lanka? And he said, Yeah, why not? Why don't you do it? So I literally am representing my guru's organization in Sri Lanka. And he took that idea, and then he also asked a few of his other students if you'll go to our organization's website now, you'll actually find regional leaders. I see. All coming from a little conversation I had with him. And so, in a way, it was like a nice win-win thing. So I got a superb, superbly set up organization with all the collateral and what have you. And then he got a wider network because he obviously has been training people from all over the world. And so now we are like a small little multinational, each individually set up in different countries and doing it. He was, while we were doing this, now I was training to be a coach, remember? There was never training involved. I made a request. Can I run training programs under the umbrella of this organization? And he said, Yeah, that's fine. Please go ahead. And he was kind enough to say, Whatever you do from training, I don't want anything to do with it. It's yours. So, in a way, he said, It's your baby. You do what it does. That opened up training. It was just a brain, I just a brainwave, and it just opened up training. I wasn't a trained trainer. No, training is not easy. You need to know how to train. So I found another program that trained trainers, a locally based program. I did that, learned the rudiments of being a trainer, then I also followed a few other things, and I got myself also retrained as a trainer. So as you can see, it's a bit of intent, but a lot of luck and chance also played their part. Network, people I know, knowing people I know, friends of friends. And I got to where I am today. So today I represent this organization called Morphosis Coaching, which is headquartered in Kuala Lumpur, run by my guru. His name is Jean-Francois Jardin. And we have regional leaders in in Indonesia, in Greece, in UK, in Tunisia, and so on. And that's how it is. So long story short, the shortest answer to your question is a bit of intent and a bit of chance. Got to got me to where I am.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

So after being in the coaching, wow, that's a really interesting story.

SPEAKER_03 28:18

That's very confusing too.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

It's it's I like the intent in there. I think that's the most important thing I understood from it. After being in the training, coaching uh realm of field, what are some of the mistakes leaders make when it comes to leading their own people and things like that?

SPEAKER_01 28:41

I'll probably answer this not just from coaching training point of view, but even from my personal experience. I also have made lots of mistakes, and I guess No way, really. Nobody in the world can claim to have not made mistakes in their lives. But a lot of mistakes. Most of my mistakes came from where I was looking at things from an egoistic position. I know more than you, kind of thing. And that probably is the biggest mistake any leader can make. The point is we have people so that collectively we can do better.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

And individually we know we can't do better than collect. But that thing somehow goes off our head when hierarchy sets in. And for me, that was the biggest problem. You need to do this because I told you to do it. I had that attitude once upon a time. But very soon I settled down. Very soon I learned that was not going to work because team members, especially the younger ones, actually knew more than us. They are coming with more fresh information, fresh knowledge. They may not have experience, but they have knowledge. We bring the experience factor, and when we bring both of that together, we come up with better solutions. It took some time for me to realize that.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

And once I did. Was there a reason how uh or a story where you it made you realize?

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Obviously, getting bombed by my boss for a mistake, and then he finds out that the junior actually had the response. Why the hell didn't you listen to that guy? Because he's younger than me, because he's so there was it, it was a bit of a wake-up call. There has to be something like that. You know, life isn't always hunky dory and lovey in the corporate sector. Some there are there are tough days and tough discussions also. But eventually, once I clicked to me, very soon I settled down after that. And then I realized, hey, that's that's how it is. That's that's one of the and that's one of the biggest mistakes lots of so-called leaders make. The word is a leader. We forget what a leader truly is supposed to do. You're supposed to lead as against managing. There is a distinction between being a leader and being a manager. Manager is you manage the work, leading is you lead a group of people towards a common goal. And over there, it's not just the leader's point of view that matters, it's everyone's point of view. And that, if we can somehow fix that, I guess lots of leadership issues can get sorted out. So for me, it was mainly ego. But the moment I sorted that out, I turned out, started becoming a better leader. Was I a better manager? Maybe not. But I turned out to be a better leader, and that always is better in the long run. You're not a good manager, you may miss deadlines, you may make a few mistakes at work and what have you. But those can be fixed. You miss a deadline, you go and say sorry to somebody, get shelled at, but then you somehow finish it off and you can deliver the work. But to be a good leader, that's a bit of a long-term thing. The benefits of it flow not just today, tomorrow, but for years to come. And I I started molding myself along those lines. Coming to training, coaching, and my experience over there, lots of times I find not just ego, but also sometimes lack of knowledge, lack of information, lack of trust among the team. Even and lack of trust, by the way, not just because of any fault of the leader, the so-called leader, but also because of the team.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Things the people have done in the past have led to the lack of trust. So lots of factors sometimes come to light, Sharan, when it comes to leadership challenges, challenges faced by leaders. Which again goes back to what I said. Not all leaders have the same problem. You need to talk to them first, understand what the issue is before you give solutions to them. And that's that's where I come in.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Part of understanding these leaders are seeing their weaknesses and forties and whatnot. And almost it almost seems like you're playing the role of a counselor first to understand the person. Now, what's been the best way you've been able to help a leader change and be molded into a better leader, especially with hierarchy? Because I think one of the things that we can both agree is that especially in Sri Lanka, hierarchy is such an important thing in workplace. And I was talking to Arishad from Flash Health. He they don't have these specific titles and whatnot. He said, it's all just lead leads and leaders. So that's a huge task to do in Sri Lanka, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 33:39

It is, it is, it is a very big task. Once again, if you remember, I told you I got into this investment bank which was entrepreneurial. If you looked at our business cards, if you looked at mine, it said Farha's Faruk, name of the company, there was no designation on it. If you looked at my bosses, it said Issa Zainal, name of the company, da da da da da da da. So when the two of us go for meetings and both of us hand over our cards, the person on the other side didn't know which fellow's boss, which fellows are subordinate. So as far as they were concerned, they are representing the organization. I think Flash Health operates along similar lines, very good way. Yeah. Now, that benefit was there in me. Hierarchies don't really matter to the outside world. Yeah. And it doesn't really matter in the inside as well, as long as we know what each team is supposed to deliver.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Now, in Sri Lanka, yes, hierarchy is important. By the way, just not in Sri Lanka, lots of places in the world, around the world, hierarchy is still quite important. How do we convince or how do we talk to organizations and leaders where they still consider hierarchy important? Which goes to what you said. You use the word counselor. I'm not a trained counselor, so I wouldn't dare get into that territory, but I am a trained coach. I do have the skills to be a coach. What I do initially in my discussions is I play the role of a coach. I do those probing questions and let the person come up with their own thinking process for that particular problem. And coming out of that will be follow-up questions, which eventually quietly leads them towards the direction where I feel would be the best solution for them. So if it's a question of hierarchy is too rigid, we need to quietly steer them away. So I would be steering the discussion that way. As against in some organization, I may even actually go for the other alternative. They don't have a hierarchy, you probably should think of this kind of a thing. But the way it's done is I wear my the hat of a coach and I start coaching them first, get as much information as I can, and then using that get to the next level of discussion, which would be in wearing the trainer's hat or some other hats. Counseling itself is a totally different profession. But I get what you mean. This is this is exactly what you're meaning. But this is what I do. I become a coach. Another quick example recently we're talking to a group of people about etiquette, and we were we got to dining etiquette. Okay. Dining has, you know, when you go to a formal organization, you have everything arranged, and you gotta start with this and that, and you gotta sit in a particular way, you gotta all of that. And during the discussion, one particular individual was asking very loudly with for everybody to hear, why should we follow rules set by others? Which is a valid question. Right. Absolutely valid question. Why should we follow rules set by others? I'm happy with the way I eat. In this situation, there's a bit of a dilemma. Do I go head-on collision? Right. Or do I once again I put the hat of a coach? This was an educational organization, so the person who was talking, asking this question was themselves an academic. So I put on the hat of a coach, and the way I asked is, well, I tend to agree with you. I also have my preferred way of eating because I usually eat with my right hand. So if even with a fork, I might actually eat with the right hand, though that's not the accepted way when you're in a formal setting. But I said having my own point of view is good, but isn't it also good if we are open to new ideas? And then I linked it to their profession. I said, as an academic, as a we base our academia on a certain set of readings that we have done. Having said that, academia also changes, it develops. If we do not have an open mind to accept new thinking, we may not progress well as an academic. I said, from that point of view, isn't it good to accept something else? And so that's how I stared the conversation. Right. And I think it turned out well. I don't know, I don't know if the person changed the way they're eating, but at least it makes people think. It makes people think. And even to me, I was also surprised how I brought that quick connection between dining etiquette and the profession of the individual. Right. And I could link this into just open your mind and some. There's nothing, no harm in thinking of some other new way of doing things. Whether you accept it or not is secondary, but at least that will make your mind grow. Right. And that'll help you in your profession, kind of a thing. So that happened.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

That's brilliant. So sounds like showing up with your creativity at your work is like almost like an important thing.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

It's like a tool built in your it has to, and I think it also has to be a bit of an impulsive thing as well. It should, it's also, it has to be inbuilt. Every person you speak to is unique, Sharan. And having a one size fits all never works, which is why whenever I go into any discussion, I always go with a very open mind. Because you never know which way the discussion goes, which way the training will go. And immediately you need to think of something that will steer the direction, steer the conversation in the right direction. So you need to have that creativity embedded, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

So in a world where there is LMS, learning management systems, and all these other kinds of like usually a coach has all these things and like what you said, like classes and pre-done stuff, right? So it sounds like every time you go to a new organization, you create from scratch, or you how does that process work?

SPEAKER_01 39:30

So as I said, it's not really a question of creating from scratch. I do have some basic foundation for various topics. However, it's not like I have a standard set of PowerPoint slides and I just, you know, cut and chop and put them in. It doesn't work that way because every organization's requirement is different. So I use the base that I have. Of course, I work with another gentleman as well. So the two of us develop this together. Okay. But every time we sit and go through and then we say, where do we tweak this, where do we turn this? Their problems are not like the previous clients. They could be different. The way clients talk to them will be different, the clients deal to them is different, the way they deal with suppliers could be different. So we kind of make each thing that we put into the presentation unique to that particular organization. And you can only do that by having proper open conversation with the client beforehand. So that's what we do. And so, yes, we work from a we do have a certain foundation set of material, but from that we develop everything which is uniquely catered, tailor-made, bespoke to that particular person. So if I were to again draw resemblance or some similarity to tailoring, it's a bit like you'll have the cloth and the buttons and the thread, but every person's fitting is different. So you need to make sure you need to get that right. So that material's there. Once you speak to them only, you know how you're going to get it fitted. And so that's probably what we do.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

So now we've been in Sri Lanka for almost five, six years now. What is the impact you are trying to make with the company and your mission that you're out after? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

So what I really want to do is to bring this whole thing about having understanding clients' needs prior to actually going and doing anything. I mean, sad to say, I've seen in Sri Lanka there's a whole load of coaches, a whole load of training taking place, but lots of them seem to be one size fits all. And I want this profession to move out of it. Having said that, there's also good news. Lots of coaches and trainers are also adopting something similar to what I do, where they don't have a one-size-fits-all, they actually are going and making sure what is developed and what is delivered solves client problems, customer problems. So we have both ends. But I would like more people to shift to this side of the spectrum where we're actually serving a client's needs. Learned this from my guru, Jeff. We call him. He said, whatever you do should be at the service of the client. Otherwise, it's a waste for yourself as well as the client. You will get some money, but then are you going to grow as a professional? Are you going to grow your reputation? Right. Right. So this is one thing that I wish to do. The second thing that I wish to do is to try to make this particular profession, particularly coaching, a little bit more affordable and available. Yes. Lots of times the amounts quoted are quite high. Now, yes, we need to make a living, don't get me wrong, and money is important. But there is also a certain service element that comes with these two professions. Absolutely. Maybe consulting, not so much, but from coaching and training, there's also a service element. So I make it a point when I do my discussions, especially the initial discovery discussions, if I feel even the slightest hint that the client may not be able to afford my standard fees, I don't quote those. I try to find out from the client what could be something reasonable that they are willing to pay. And I would go with that. Now, does that harm me financially? Maybe. In the short run, maybe. But guess what? I have actually got a new friend. A new client, a new friend. Yes. They become successful, is he or she is going to become my marketing team.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Absolutely. That makes sense. So instead of charging the full amount and spending a lot of time and effort on a marketing campaign, I would rather use this.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

The service aspect to it.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

The service aspect of it. So if you look at my LinkedIn profile, you will find very little mention of what I do. You'll find very little mention of my coaching, my training. I I have on and off, I do some posts, but I'm not crazy on social media when it comes to this. I am visible, but not every day. I'm happy to do this. I don't do things like that. Mainly because I don't need to. I don't need to. From my client base, I get new clients. I get a lot of referrals. I get a lot of people coming in, calling me. Hey, I I I got your number from so and so. Can we have a chat? So it's not always all about money. So therefore, what I have something that I wish to do is to make sure that this becomes a lot more affordable. So a lot more people can benefit from this profession. And once this broadbasing happens, Sharan, clients are just going to come in. Currently, we are all fighting for a small pool of clients. The blue chips, the sea suits, company, organization, business owners, perhaps. And that's like what? We are a country of 20 million people. We are trying to fight for about 5,000 people. Right. If we broadbase this and increase this 5,000 to 50,000 players, a lot more clients. That's okay. Why don't we think about that? Exactly. That's one aspect. The other thing is Sri Lankan coaches. Lots of us are focused just within Sri Lanka. I also work with outside clients. I work with clients outside Sri Lanka. I have a reasonable network that gets me referrals and a pipeline of clients from outside. Why don't we also look at that? So whilst you can make it affordable locally, you can actually make your money internationally because you can be very competitive in the international market. You know how much a rupee is worth, right? A dollar gets us 300 rupees. Right. So if an international coach is charging, say $500 an hour, we don't need to go that far to make a lot of money. Right, exactly. So what I say is you make your money where you can, and then you drop your rates so that you can broadbase it locally. So that's another thing that I would really like to get into.

SPEAKER_02 45:56

It's almost like a sustainability aspect.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

Aspect and to grow the grow the pot. Currently we are just fighting for a very small pot. Why would you do that?

SPEAKER_02 46:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

Why would you do that? If you can grow the pot, then the market actually becomes a lot bigger, becomes a lot more affordable, and a lot more people will want your services. If you don't do that, there is a danger. The danger is that somebody is going to cater to that market at a lower price, and that may not be at the quality that the profession deserves.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 46:32

That quality may drop, and therefore the credibility of the entire profession might come down. So those who can maintain the credibility should just need to think about sacrificing a bit and broad basing the client base sure.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

Finally, I always ask the guest at the end based on your life, based on everything you've done, mistakes and all somebody looking at this, watching this episode, and being inspired to take some steps, or they feel they're stuck in life. What do you have to say to them?

SPEAKER_01 47:04

So what I would suggest that you should be doing is look inwards, see what you truly want to do in the world. And over here, if you permit me, I could talk about this Japanese concept called ikigai. Yes, I know that very well. That's something that I actually applied to myself in figuring out where my ikigai, my purpose of living was, and which was in people development. Similarly, every single one of you, if you answer those four questions that ikigai concept puts out, you will be able to figure out what really matters to you, what is the purpose of your respective lives. And trust me, when you get the answer to that and you focus on doing that, you will be in the right place. Sharon, I can't put it as simple more simpler than this. I practice ikigai myself. I do a lot of guy work when it comes to my coaching because I think it's quite powerful. It is. It's a very simple concept, but a very powerful concept. I have even managed to, of course, it's not good for my profession as an accountant, but a couple of accountants have quit being accountants, have gotten into doing other things. Right. Which is not bad. Right. There's one accountant who decided to get into pottery. Yeah, absolutely. Got into pottery. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong in that. You can still use your accounting knowledge in managing your business.

SPEAKER_02 48:28

Absolutely. No, I think that's the most beautiful thing, right? Like in life, you you you collect all these skills, nothing is a waste. And Kigai is one of those things I have personally practiced, like about 10 years ago or something like that. I saw on social media all over the place. And I was like, this is interesting. Now it took me a while to like really get to that point of figuring it out, but that practice of trying to figure it out got my mind to think in the terms of what do I really want to do? What am I here to do? What I you know, what am I loved to do, and things like that. And I'm I'm happy to say I'm here doing what I'm loved to do, and and stories like yours and and especially being able to change and follow your curiosity, right? That's the thing that I admire the most about you, that you follow your curiosity even at 45 years old. Like, and I I'm pretty sure you're gonna continue to do that for the rest of your life. Forhas, thank you so much for being on the podcast. It was a pleasure. All I gotta say is that please comment below and some of the things that actually tug your heart and and let's start a conversation about this. Until next time, though, keep dreaming, keep creating, and keep going on your own creative Odyssey. Until next time, see you later.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

We're so excited to share with you all the episodes that we filmed in Sri Lanka. We know a lot of you have been waiting, but we wanted to make sure that we did this really meaningfully because it really was an exciting time. When Sean first came to me and said he was gonna take the podcast to Sri Lanka, I honestly thought he was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

And so did I. I was like, is there any possibility we can fit this in? I want to try to bring the podcast in, get to know people, and interview Peters.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

So we expected to have just a few conversations, maybe a little sparks of inspiration here and there, but what happened was so much deeper than that. We met so many people that not only you got to interview, but that also like came alongside us to help make these conversations happen.

SPEAKER_02 50:21

The crazy thing was this daring idea of going to a country, even the one from Sri Lanka. I hadn't been back for like seven years, and all I knew was some people from school that I went to and some social media that I've been following, but didn't really have a concrete plan to make it happen. And some days we had six, seven episodes back-to-back recorded because people were waiting and and and you were kind of facilitating that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:47

Yeah, so it felt really significant because not only was it that we were having like these raw and authentic conversations, but a lot of their stories resonated with charmants, and so it just was really fascinating to see them speaking the same language and to see like just this commonality of creativity and identity and purpose coming out as the themes of these conversations.

SPEAKER_02 51:07

You must be wondering when this trip happened. It happened in September, and uh the goal was to get these episodes out by December of last year. Well, a lot of things happened, and I didn't want to diminish the work we put in and again the amazing gifts that we've had. So we decided to do something really cool, and we're gonna post however many we can a week.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

So, LinkedIn, every single episode, you'll find a free PDF. It's actually a magazine that we developed. You can kind of think of it like if you go to a concert and you get like the souvenir of what happened behind the scenes and just about the different artists and all those things. We wanted to share with you not only about Sherman's journey, but then help you connect with some of the guests that we interview in Sri Lanka and then invite you on your own creative Odyssey.

SPEAKER_02 51:49

Yes, there's so much more that goes into or that fuels this podcast, which is this mission to inspire people to create so that they can get to know themselves and connect with their inner child. So to see that we could bring that story out of Sri Lankan creatives, a wide diverse range of creatives was definitely a highlight.

SPEAKER_00 52:14

Our hope is that whether you're living in the States, you're living in Sri Lanka, or somewhere else around the world, you'll connect with someone's story within Sri Lanka and it might inspire you to continue on your own creative codes.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

The link to the PDF for the magazine is in the description, and please check it out. They're doing really cool things that I really think you should be checking out to see their journeys. So, without further ado, let's get to the episode.